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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
When to use the Middle Name Field?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting Gadgeteer:
Quote:
Parse as seen ie A/B/C unless you can document otherwise.

Yes of course. I am not saying everyone needs to read an encyclopedia for every name they want to enter. I am just saying that it takes more than counting 1-2-3 to make a perfect database.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHFactor
Is this program dead?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 188
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Quoting Martin Zuidervliet:
Quote:
The lack of respect for (other) cultural or religious reasons will be displayed by the results of this poll.


I have to disagree with you on this statement, Martin.  Perhaps that would be true if enough options were included in the poll, but unless people can truly represent how they feel, I don't think this particular poll will tell anything about respect - all opinions aren't represented.  There isn't even an "other" option.
Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and you keep him warm the rest of his life.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
Missed again!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United Kingdom Posts: 2,293
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I believe you should use them for all names because someone should still be able to enter data without having to find out:

1) the country where the person was born
2) the country where they grew up
3) the nationalities of the parents
4) which of the above is appropraite to decide what their 'culture' is
and of course
5) which countries (supposedly) do and do not 'recognise' middle names... for example the UK on many official forms uses just "Surname" anf "Forenames" boxes implying it doesn't recognise names as 'middle' yet the culture fully accepts middle names even if the pen-puching form fillers don't!
It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
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Quoting Voltaire53:
Quote:
I believe you should use them for all names because someone should still be able to enter data without having to find out:

1) the country where the person was born
2) the country where they grew up
3) the nationalities of the parents
4) which of the above is appropraite to decide what their 'culture' is
and of course
5) which countries (supposedly) do and do not 'recognise' middle names... for example the UK on many official forms uses just "Surname" anf "Forenames" boxes implying it doesn't recognise names as 'middle' yet the culture fully accepts middle names even if the pen-puching form fillers don't!


You have a point there. But then, it seems to me that the same argument could be used the other way round: if you don't know all those things, why on earth should you consider it a Middle Name?
I can't help thinking that the answer to that question depends on the national background. If you ask an American or an English person, they will consider the "name in the middle" to generally be a "Middle Name", I guess. On the other hand, if you ask a French, German, Spanish, Italian or Chinese person, they will not, AFAIK. Some could even reply: what is a Middle Name? 

Mind you, I am not saying that calling it a "Middle Name" shows "lack of respect". I disagree with Martin on that.
I am only saying that entering a name as "Middle Name" is a cultural choice, not neutral at all, but it seems neutral to those who are used to it. Just like accents: everyone has got an accent, but you can hardly notice your own (it will sound as "neutral" to your ears), while you can easily spot an accent in the utterance of a bloke from a different British town or different borough, social class, and so on! 

Having said that, I would be cool with the proposed "Middle Name" rule if it worked. On the contrary, I fear it won't work, as many users will enter data differently than expected, according to national usage, not according to whatever rule we vote for here.

Just my 2 eurocents 
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorGadgeteer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 519
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I have already covered this in my proposed Credits rules in the rules comittee forum.

Link
Stuart
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,536
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How about a simple universal rule like:
One single first name (or initial) in the First Name field,
Last name in the Last Name field,
Everything else in the Middle Name field... (initials, middle names, more 'first' names, aliases if we must).
Hans
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
Missed again!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United Kingdom Posts: 2,293
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Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
How about a simple universal rule like:
One single first name (or initial) in the First Name field,
Last name in the Last Name field,
Everything else in the Middle Name field... (initials, middle names, more 'first' names, aliases if we must).


I personally always preferred this, at least as the basic default... it means no need to ever have any additional knowledge or ability other than looking at the credits and being able to read.
It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorGadgeteer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 519
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.
Stuart
 Last edited: by Gadgeteer
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting Martin Zuidervliet:
Quote:
The lack of respect for (other) cultural or religious reasons will be displayed by the results of this poll. If and when we want to have an online database with only one name for every person we should not only look for the most commonly used name, but also need to find out how that name should be parsed. It may look strange if a foreign cast or crew member is parsed differently amongst others, but it's the only correct way to do so.


Martin:

Why is this a relevant statement\. It demonstrates to me that you are simply very nationalistic and OVERLY culturally sensitive. Speaking for myself Martin, I have tried to remain culturally neutral and have stated so numerous times. You know there is ab old saying when in Rome.... As I have pointed out before this program was developed and and remains in the US of A. The firs step in developing a quallity database is for users to FOLLOW the Rules whether they agree or NOT. It is probably perfectly natural despite my own attempts to remain as culurally neutral as possible that some aspects of the system that i grew up with myself, and i am sure the same is true of Ken, find their way into the system. The attitude you display in this single post displays an expectation that we bend over and kiss your cultural rear end. Sir, we are trying to accomodate the various cultiures the best we can, but I for one will kiss no one's nationalistic butt. Unbelievable display of gall in this post of yours, Martin

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 5,918
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
For countries that do not use "middle names", the field should never be used.  However, I suspect there is an exception even to this!

Yeah - the parent!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
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United States Posts: 5,918
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Quoting Gadgeteer:
Quote:
I have already covered this in my proposed Credits rules in the rules comittee forum.

Link

Not everybody can view that link.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantKrikarian
cool that never fades...
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 291
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Quoting Martin Zuidervliet:
Quote:
The lack of respect for (other) cultural or religious reasons will be displayed by the results of this poll.


was the intent of the poll? cuz that's what it sounds like and i don't particularly like boobytraps.

"Vampirism is still not a disease, Julia. Vampires are the living dead...dead...dead..."
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Exactly, krik. As usual it appears to that we have cultural elitists to me that seem to expecvt everyone else in the world to bow and scrape before their culture and nationalistic issues.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
 Last edited: by Winston Smith
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,536
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Quoting Voltaire53:
Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
How about a simple universal rule like:
One single first name (or initial) in the First Name field,
Last name in the Last Name field,
Everything else in the Middle Name field... (initials, middle names, more 'first' names, aliases if we must).


I personally always preferred this, at least as the basic default... it means no need to ever have any additional knowledge or ability other than looking at the credits and being able to read.


It's what I do when I fill in forms, including Customs forms, also in the US, and I never had complaints. I have a Family Name obviously, and three Given Names, of which one would appear to be the "First". By default the rest are then Middle Name(s).
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
How about a simple universal rule like:
One single first name (or initial) in the First Name field,
Last name in the Last Name field,
Everything else in the Middle Name field... (initials, middle names, more 'first' names, aliases if we must).

As long as the last name is put completely into the last name field no matter of how many words it is composed, I can support this.
 Last edited: by RHo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting RHo:
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As long as the last name is put completely into the last name field no matter of how many words it is composed, I can support this.


That's better. But, how do you find out what part is the "last name"?
-- Enry
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