<shakes head> Here we go again. If a user doesn't understand that IMDb (Intenet Movie Database) is a third party database, his license to use a computer should be summarily revoked.        

I don't understand, I never have any kind of problem understanding this stuff, yet others do.

Skip

I'm just wondering if when the new rules are created and posted. That maybe all of us need to take the contribution test again, and make sure the third party definition is part.

Personally I was a bit surprised when this site was opened Ken did not require the test again.

Bobb

(Who is sure folks will think of me as the kid who reminded the teacher she forgot to assign homework!)     

First, "third party entity" is different from "third party database".  A third party database is usually hosted at a third party entity, but a "third party entity" has a scope well beyond the range of mere "third party database".

Second, "third party database" has a rather broad scope.  In reference to the forbiddence of using third party database information, how am I to determine the SRP?  All shopping sites are third party databases.  IMDB is forbidden.  The DVD producer's site is almost certainly being run off of a database so I can't even use that (or do they count as "second party"? see below for more).  I believe I read that a hardcopy version of a database is not an exception to the rule, so I can't use the prices in a catalog, since the catalog is just a formatted version of a database.  Maybe I could find a press release with the price on it, but if that's being served out of a database (eg: AnimeOnDVD.com keeps a record of all the press releases sent out by the US anime DVD producers), does that still get trumped by the rule?

This seems pedantic nitpicking, but the point is that a strictly literal interpretation of what Ken said really does seem to prevent almost any source for this bit of data.

Suppose the DVD producer is considered a "second party".  Well, what exactly defines a "second party", and how is it distinguished from a "third party"?  Getting into legal terminology, I'm surprised Unicus hasn't stepped in to say, "That's too complicated!"  The point, though, is that neither "third party" nor "database" is clearly defined in the minds of most users, and even the way that I think of them may not match what Ken intended.


On the other hand, the reason Ken makes a point of this is to prevent 'theft' (ie: copyright violation).  If I remember correctly, prices (and numbers in general) cannot be copyrighted (some major chain tried to use that to sue a company that reprinted the prices on the specials being run).  Thus you might say that any numeric/date/price values may be sourced from anywhere since they cannot be considered a copyright violation.  That distinction would need to be made clear to the users, though, if it applied.


Next, with Hal's distinction of 'reference' and 'source', those are two different terms, and mean different things.  There's a difference between going to IMDB and noting that they say that the CoO is the UK  vs.  going to IMDB to find the name of the production company and their website, and then searching that website to find the company's address by which to determine the CoO.  The first case uses IMDB as a source, the second case as a reference.


[soapbox]Any terms we use in the rules which are either specific to the program or may be confusing or interpreted in different ways need to be well defined within the rules themselves.  Despite Unicus's calls for simplicity, lack of definition can cause more confusion than slightly longer wordings.  Better of course to be able to be able to use terms that don't need specialized definitions, but that's not always possible.[/soapbox]

I know, pal.

Skip

Quoting bobb:

Quote:
I'm just wondering if when the new rules are created and posted. That maybe all of us need to take the contribution test again, and make sure the third party definition is part.

I'd rather that there be loyalty tests.

Quoting Ken Cole:

Quote:
There is a difference between researching via third party sites and copying data from third party sites.  Use your best judgement.  To give a couple of examples:

- Checking a few online retailers to find a consensus for an upcoming DVD's release date: OK
- Copying the cast and crew (via automation or not) from the IMDB: NOT OK

Thanks for that Ken.  I believe this is exactly what Hal was trying to get at.  There are certain fields that require us to look somewhere other than the DVD.

We have people here who speak English? Any version will do.    

Skip

Grossly incorrect a good portion of the time? You are being far too generous

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