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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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WOW on the cast features |
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| Registered: March 10, 2007 |  Posts: 524 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip, I was using an example as the first foray in film making as the "master name". What we need to do is come up with a set of general rules. As to what that ther rules are, it is open right now, and we welcome everyone's input into them. For example, if an actor gets married and just appends her married name, then maybe we dont use that. If a well known actor today used a different name in the first B film that he/she did, then we probably shouldn't use it. I think with some creativity, there are some general guidelines we can come up with. One good way to start that might be to continue to discuss specific examples. As we do that, the rules might unfold before our eyes  Does that help? -Gerri | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 462 |
| | Posted: | | | | Gerri,
Could we get a thread started and pinned, so that discussion of this can be localized? I like the idea of throwing out specific examples and developing things from there. | | | "I am Andrew Ryan and I am here to ask you a question:
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone.
I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something
different. I chose the impossible. I chose…
Rapture." |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 524 |
| | Posted: | | | | Created and pinned....
-Gerri | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Remember, Unicus, it was YOU who first advised me that most users probably never visit the forums, a small percentage do at best. So anything said here is basically irrelevant to those users, in short they won't know that Gerri has said to use the first credited name as the standard, and that in itself would seem to be potentially problematic. Yes, I did. But you are missing the point... As Gerri pointed out, we can probably solve a lot of these issues here in the forums. Once that is done, it should be a fairly simple matter of updating the rules. So far, it feels like we are going to have something here that we didn't have at IVS...an active company representative. Both Ken and Gerri seem to be maintaining an active presence. Either one of them should be able to revise the rules on the fly as issues come up...and everyone has to follow the rules.  That is the main reason I don't think we are going to have as many problems as we did before.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Gerri,
Can we get specifics on problem that has plagued the previous version of DVDP for collectors of Asian movies. I am sure that you are aware that most Asians list their names Surname, Given name as opposed to western custom of Given name, Surname. With the prior version of the software and edict that we were supposed to use name as credited, we would often have to put in names backwards to meet this rule. However with the as credited option, it seems we no longer have to do this. Can we have an official policy that all "master name" respect Surname for the Last Name field and Given name for the First Name field (with Middle name field reserved for any western name or nickname lot of these Asian actors and actresses have)?
For example in western movies, Gong Li lists her name Given Name followed by Surname. Zhang Zi-yi lists her name Surname followed by Given Name.
In Chinese movies, Gong Li is credited as Li Gong and Zhang Zi-yi is still credited as Zhang Zi-yi.
I propose that for the master name, we list Gong Li as Gong (First name) and Li (Last name). She can be credited as Li Gong in Chinese movies and Gong Li in western movies where she is credited as such.
Zhang Zi-yi would be listed in the master name database as Zi-yi (First name) and Zhang (Last name). She can still be credited as in credits for both Chinese and western movies.
Thank you. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
...
So far, it feels like we are going to have something here that we didn't have at IVS...an active company representative. Both Ken and Gerri seem to be maintaining an active presence. Either one of them should be able to revise the rules on the fly as issues come up...and everyone has to follow the rules.
That is the main reason I don't think we are going to have as many problems as we did before. It did take Gerri a full six minutes to create the pinned thread that Ross asked for.  pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote:
Skip, I was using an example as the first foray in film making as the "master name". What we need to do is come up with a set of general rules. As to what that ther rules are, it is open right now, and we welcome everyone's input into them.
For example, if an actor gets married and just appends her married name, then maybe we dont use that. If a well known actor today used a different name in the first B film that he/she did, then we probably shouldn't use it.
I think with some creativity, there are some general guidelines we can come up with. One good way to start that might be to continue to discuss specific examples. As we do that, the rules might unfold before our eyes
Does that help?
-Gerri Yes it does, gerri, thanks. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote:
****Ken confirmed that you should be seeing them all, it is a bug - you should be seeing some bolded text followed by non-bolded - I have confirmed that all you see now is the non-bolded.
-Gerri Thanks for the confirmation Gerri... atleast now I know we will be able to work with it on our voting. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Remember, Unicus, it was YOU who first advised me that most users probably never visit the forums, a small percentage do at best. So anything said here is basically irrelevant to those users, in short they won't know that Gerri has said to use the first credited name as the standard, and that in itself would seem to be potentially problematic.
Yes, I did. But you are missing the point...
As Gerri pointed out, we can probably solve a lot of these issues here in the forums. Once that is done, it should be a fairly simple matter of updating the rules.
So far, it feels like we are going to have something here that we didn't have at IVS...an active company representative. Both Ken and Gerri seem to be maintaining an active presence. Either one of them should be able to revise the rules on the fly as issues come up...and everyone has to follow the rules.
That is the main reason I don't think we are going to have as many problems as we did before. One hopes that is the case, however, you and I both know that for every good idea somebody has, there are six people standing behind him bitching about doing it that way. Seems to me that whether Ken and Gerri are involved or not, if a situation is left open to the point that people can interpret the rules to their advantage, they will do so. That's why we're still having this argument!  | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Still working on the site fix, but just to chime in, I do not want to alter the meaning of the Credited As field from what is stated in the current rules. The system was chosen since it allows for connecting any credit. An alias system also works well in cases where an actor changes names (e.g gets married), but doesn't work well with 1-off credits. The Credited As works well for both.
I do see the point of contention with "true" names for the actors, but had expected that we could come up with a set of guidelines with community input.
That said, if we missed the mark on this feature, I'm also open to program changes to support an alias system. Possibly the two can coexist, with Credited As used for 1-off credits.
Feedback is welcome.
Thanks, Ken | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ken,
If we could lock down names in our personal database, I think that will solve a lot of these issues together with as credited field.
As an example, let's take Helena Bonham Carter.
In the database she would be H345263xxx (some number or code for this actress)
In my personal database that number would correspond to Helena//Bonham Carter.
In Skip's database it might be Helena/Bonham/Carter.
But in both cases, as credited field would remain Helena Bonham Carter (one field and not split into First/Middle/Last). This might be coded as Movie-xxx-cast-xxx and cross linked to actor database.
If we had the option to maintain our personal actor name database to correspond to DVDP database, everyone goes away happy.
Thanks, | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | On the topic of credited as....
I've noticed quite a few contributions have already been accepted with cast lists that are NOT taken from the credits - BUT they don't have the CREDITED AS feature usitilised either!!!
So, when I come to check a profile and see that the name is different in the online db, I'm not sure if I should contribute stating: Restoring cast/crew to as credited status. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
That said, if we missed the mark on this feature, I'm also open to program changes to support an alias system. Possibly the two can coexist, with Credited As used for 1-off credits.
Feedback is welcome.
Thanks, Ken I don't think you have missed the mark. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, can say this is a bad idea on day 4. Initial testing has shown promise. As I said, there are going to be some growing pains. But that is what happens when we get a new feature. Some people didn't get what they expected or wanted and, because of that, are predicting doom and gloom. I am sure we can work something out. Most of us are reasonable people. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
One hopes that is the case, however, you and I both know that for every good idea somebody has, there are six people standing behind him bitching about doing it that way. Actually, in recent weeks and months, there have only been 1 or 2 nay sayers. Most of the rest of us have been able to come to some kind of agreement. What we were missing on the other site, we now have here...someone with actual authority to ratify or dismiss those agreements. Quote:
Seems to me that whether Ken and Gerri are involved or not, if a situation is left open to the point that people can interpret the rules to their advantage, they will do so. That's why we're still having this argument! I think you missed my point. If Ken and Gerri remain active in the forums, when those situations occur we can discuss it with them. Once we come to an agreement, that they approve of, they can fix the rule so it isn't open to interpretation. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 524 |
| | Posted: | | | | There have been a few disparaging personal remarks made in this thread. Our goal is to keep these forums clear of that kind of thing so people can feel free to voice their opinion without fear of retribution.
I want to head this off right now before things get too ugly. Please try to keep any negative personal comments outside of these forums.
-Gerri | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote:
Our goal is to keep these forums clear of that kind of thing so people can feel free to voice their opinion without fear of retribution. In that case, I'll reveal that I like Voltaire's idea.  ( from the pinned thread): Quoting Voltaire53: Quote:
Much as I fear to say it would it not be the most consistent approach that the 'core' name is the one used by <gulp> IMDb?
IANAL but I would imagine we're not actually guilty of using their data, just agreeing with their choices, if we do this and it means there is no argument over who is right, which should be core, what order Asian names are in etc. which will plague the database forever unless some 'can be followed by anyone Rule' is put in place.
I shall now hide | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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