The recent thread on Parsing Native American Names raised an issue about whether to standardize names that have no variants. The example in that thread is Chief Dan George whose only acting credit is Chief Dan George. Although "Chief" is a prefix in the sense that it stands for a position or title, such as Sir, Captain, President, etc., the argument for including it in his name is that it is in every one of his acting credits. To place "Chief" only in the "Credited As" field would require modifying all of his credits.

There are guidelines that some of us have been using for determining how to enter names. These are listed in the List of Common Names thread. The question is when should these guidelines NOT be applied.

Don't standardize a name that has no variants If an actor such as Chief Dan George is only credited one way, don't change the name. This would also apply to an actor credited only, for example, as John Smith Jr. (without the comma). Even though there is a guideline to add the comma (John Smith, Jr.), with this option we would NOT add the comma since his only credit is without the comma.

Standardize all names per the guidelines This would apply all of the guidelines to all names regardless of which is most often credited.

Standardize suffixes but nothing else This would apply to John Smith Jr. and require that a comma precede the Jr. but no other guidelines would be applied to names without variants.

Standardize suffixes and accents but nothing else Same as above and would also apply to names with accents. Therefore, if a person's name contains an accent, but they are always credited without the accent, we would add the accent to their name and use 'Credited As' for the non-accented form.

Standardize prefixes and suffixes but nothing else Same as suffixes above but would also include prefixes such as Chief, Sir, Captain, etc. In this example, the name would be Dan George and the "Credited As" would be Chief Dan George.

Standardize prefixes and suffixes and accents but nothing else All of the above 3 options.

Something else

It depends If you prefer that names be examined on a case by case basis with forum polls, discussions, etc.

I don't care

I vote for "Don't standardize a name that has no variants".

If there is no variation in the way they've ever been credited then there is no need for the whole Common Name and "Credited As" mess to get involved.  Those only need to come into play when someone has been credited multiple ways and we have to standardize their name in order to link them all correctly.

Agree 110% with Vega & Pete.

I too agree with the majority as it stands right now - Do not standardize names without variants. 

To do so could essentially mean that we're trying to apply some sort of name formatting convention if we're using these fields for jr/sr suffixes or to strip away dicriticals.

How do you know that someone does not have a "variant" name out there unless you have every film they have ever been in AND you have personally verified how they are listed in the actual film credits for each and every one of them?

I can think of no definitive source to reach a conclusion that someone has no variant on any film....including the current "Lookup Tool".

If someone has ALWAYS been credited as 'John Doe Jr', and then next year out of the blue, they get credited as 'John Doe, Jr.', are we going to go back into every old profile and apply the "standardized" name since there is now at least one "name variant" out there?

We cannot put a system in place that allows the "Name" (common name) to be changed over time.

That's why I believe that we need to establish a very limited number of name formatting standards, regardless of the "most commonly credited" name!

I have to agree with Unicus on this, he has the correct starting point.

Skip

Quoting Unicus69:

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
How do you know that someone does not have a "variant" name out there unless you have every film they have ever been in AND you have personally verified how they are listed in the actual film credits for each and every one of them?

I can think of no definitive source to reach a conclusion that someone has no variant on any film....including the current "Lookup Tool".

If someone has ALWAYS been credited as 'John Doe Jr', and then next year out of the blue, they get credited as 'John Doe, Jr.', are we going to go back into every old profile and apply the "standardized" name since there is now at least one "name variant" out there?

We cannot put a system in place that allows the "Name" (common name) to be changed over time.

That's why I believe that we need to establish a very limited number of name formatting standards, regardless of the "most commonly credited" name!

First of all, I think you are starting from the wrong position.  We don't need to know whether or not an actor has a name variant out there.  When auditing a title we must, because the rules tell us to, copy the credits exactly.  That means we start with the premise that the credits are correct.  If the credits say, 'John Doe Jr' then that is how it should be entered...so say the rules.  If you want to deviate from that, which we do with the 'credited as' feature, then you must document the need for the deviation.

You must prove that 'John Doe Jr', John Doe, Jr' and John Doe Jr." are all the same person.  Then, and only then, should you apply these 'credited as' standards.  That is just my opinion, your mileage may vary. 

I guess I'm not being clear.

I completely agree that we enter "as credited" first and foremost.

However, you agreed with Vega's statement above:

"If there is no variation in the way they've ever been credited then there is no need for the whole Common Name..."

My point is, how do you know for certain that there is no variation out there?  Do you own and have you validated his credit in every single movie?

And even if there is no variation out there today, who's to say that there won't be one tomorrow, which will require that we decide on a "common name" which is different than what is being used in the database.

Again, if 'John Doe Jr' is the only credit to date, then you are saying that's how it should be entered in DVDP.  Tomorrow he is credited as 'John Doe, Jr.".  Since we are agreeing (I think) that IF an actor is credited differently we need a "common name" and in the case of suffixes, we have agreed (I think) on the standard of 'John Doe, Jr." WHEN a "common name" is needed, then all of the old profiles will then require updating.

It seems to me that if we use the "standard" from the git go, then we will not find ourselves in this dilemma later.

Unfortunately, the Lookup Tool, does not currenlty reflect the true "as credited" name in many, many cases, which means we are either saying that we want names based on 3rd party DBs, or when we finally get around to fixing all of the "bad" credits" we are going to have to fix all of the "common names".

Either way, it's a big mess!